Wednesday, October 01, 2003
Well, I'm going to continue the sexual deviant theme, and talk about something that comes up quite a bit with my anime hobby: the Lolita Complex.
Just what the hell is a "Lolita Complex," or as the Japanese call it, lolicon? Well, it's hard to get a real definition. Some people think it's flat out pedophilia. I more generally liken it to older men who are sexually attracted to young girls, where "older" and "younger" are rather nebulous. This can be the very adult Humbert and his 12-year-old Lolita, this can be a 20-year old and a 10-year old, this can be a 30-year-old and a teenager.
This comes up in anime so much since the Japanese are rather famous for lolicon (hence, their own term for it). There are frequently many "youthfully portrayed" (as one friend puts it) girls in anime, but even though it still creeps people out, it's much more accepted over there. Oftentimes you'll have female characters who are supposedly more adult (late teens, early twenties), even though they look like they're much, much younger. Like Ichigo from Onegai Teacher and Onegai Twins. She's supposed to be 21, but she was in a "standstill" for 6 years which leaves us being told she "looks" like she's 15, when in fact she actually looks like she's 12. Sometimes they don't make this much of an effort, like with Chiyo-chan in Azumanga Daioh, who's 10 but in high school.
We had a quick debate one night as to who was more lolicon, Ichigo or Chiyo-chan. I say Chiyo-chan, even though she is presented in a completely innocent, non-sexual way. Clearly, a 10-year-old in high school is just inappropriate. Also, I think the subtle manner in which the character is portrayed makes the situation that much dirtier: it allows guys to indulge in their lolicon fantasies without feeling bad about it. Or, at least, it allows them to more effectively hide it from others. "I'm not fantasizing about her like that! I mean, look at how non-sexual the character's presentation is!" Sorta getting off track here, but you can see what life is like with my friends and me.
For a lot of people, I think there is just an automatic negative response to the thought of older guys with younger girls. However, I think this kind of fantasy should be more accepted. I know it's not gonna happen, but christ people, lighten up. It's just a well-known fact that many men are turned on by younger girls. I know people don't want to hear it, but that's just how it is. Sometimes the fantasy is disturbing, but it is still fantasy. The cycle is even more cruel as younger girls and women often go for older men (raise your hand, ladies, if you'd fuck Sean Connery).
Honestly, where the hell is the harm in fantasy? There's nothing wrong with fantasizing about or lusting after younger girls, just don't fuck girls who are too young. Besides, isn't it better to be having them fantasizing about someone younger or lusting after those anime characters instead of actually acting on those fantasies?
Fantasy often does become reality, and when it does, what is "too young"? Well, the laws have definitions for this, but I don't know if I always agree with those laws. Yeah, I know, I'm working myself into some real trouble here. Just bear with me, then criticize once you see how screwed up I am.
Everyone matures at a different rate, and if a teenage girl of reasonable maturity consents to sex with an older guy, where is the harm in that? Yeah, you can argue that the older man's experience and age can be used in a subtle yet coercive fashion, keeping it from being true consent. On the other hand, a lot of girls aren't fucking stupid, either. They have sexual desires as well, but we always seem to want to ignore or flat-out stifle that and think they're always daddy's little girl. For Christ's sake, those raging hormones are what the teenage years are all about, for both boys and girls. Doesn't mean that it always leads to the best choices, but it seems like it's made out to be even worse because we're so afraid of anything sex related.
I'm not trying to advocate a free-for-all on sex with younger girls, just a more realistic and healthy approach. Furthermore, I'm certainly not trying to apologize for men who take advantage of and/or sexually abuse younger girls.
I still haven't answered the question of "how young is too young, no matter what?" I want to say that things need to be taken on a case by case basis, but I know that's not a practical way to handle things as a matter of law. Of course, when we're talking the lower ranges like 13 and under, we can draw some clearer lines. If nothing else, though, I really object to the term "statutory rape." If you forcibly have sex with someone, it's just plain rape, and you don't need the qualifier of "statutory" because it's already a heinous enough crime. Of course, there's always the question of what true consent is, and if yes really means yes. I guess I'm not really helping myself out here.
This comes back to part of the NAMBLA debate. Does fantasy incite action? Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. It's really up to the individual as to how far they take it, but I definitely don't think you should be condemned until you take it to the point of inappropriate action. It's just in many men's nature to have naughty thoughts about girls younger than them. Whatever the case, good luck putting an end to fantasy.
I'm sure there's no secret at this point that I've got a lolita complex myself, given away by my schoolgirl uniform fetish mentioned in posts past, as well as this entire fucking post. I'm not embarrassed to say that I can look at a teenage girl and say that she's hot. There are plenty (but not all) of those "youthfully portrayed" anime characters who I find, um, stimulating. That doesn't mean I'm going to do anything about any of it, though, other than keep up the fantasies. Same goes for other guys. Some guys will do something about it, and in some cases, that's not so horrid. We just automatically want to think that the guy is some dirty older pervert (which he is) and the girl is just some innocent bystander (sometimes she is, sometimes she isn't). And of course, just because a guy finds interest in younger girls doesn't mean he exclusively thinks about younger women. It's all part of the wonderful world of maleness.
Whatever the case can we at least stop being so bloody uptight about it all? The attraction between older men/younger women is just a fact of life. As always, comments are encouraged (especially from women, if there are any left after this) to tell me whether I'm onto something, or if I'm just a sick fuck who's full of shit. I suspect I may get more of the latter.
Just what the hell is a "Lolita Complex," or as the Japanese call it, lolicon? Well, it's hard to get a real definition. Some people think it's flat out pedophilia. I more generally liken it to older men who are sexually attracted to young girls, where "older" and "younger" are rather nebulous. This can be the very adult Humbert and his 12-year-old Lolita, this can be a 20-year old and a 10-year old, this can be a 30-year-old and a teenager.
This comes up in anime so much since the Japanese are rather famous for lolicon (hence, their own term for it). There are frequently many "youthfully portrayed" (as one friend puts it) girls in anime, but even though it still creeps people out, it's much more accepted over there. Oftentimes you'll have female characters who are supposedly more adult (late teens, early twenties), even though they look like they're much, much younger. Like Ichigo from Onegai Teacher and Onegai Twins. She's supposed to be 21, but she was in a "standstill" for 6 years which leaves us being told she "looks" like she's 15, when in fact she actually looks like she's 12. Sometimes they don't make this much of an effort, like with Chiyo-chan in Azumanga Daioh, who's 10 but in high school.
We had a quick debate one night as to who was more lolicon, Ichigo or Chiyo-chan. I say Chiyo-chan, even though she is presented in a completely innocent, non-sexual way. Clearly, a 10-year-old in high school is just inappropriate. Also, I think the subtle manner in which the character is portrayed makes the situation that much dirtier: it allows guys to indulge in their lolicon fantasies without feeling bad about it. Or, at least, it allows them to more effectively hide it from others. "I'm not fantasizing about her like that! I mean, look at how non-sexual the character's presentation is!" Sorta getting off track here, but you can see what life is like with my friends and me.
For a lot of people, I think there is just an automatic negative response to the thought of older guys with younger girls. However, I think this kind of fantasy should be more accepted. I know it's not gonna happen, but christ people, lighten up. It's just a well-known fact that many men are turned on by younger girls. I know people don't want to hear it, but that's just how it is. Sometimes the fantasy is disturbing, but it is still fantasy. The cycle is even more cruel as younger girls and women often go for older men (raise your hand, ladies, if you'd fuck Sean Connery).
Honestly, where the hell is the harm in fantasy? There's nothing wrong with fantasizing about or lusting after younger girls, just don't fuck girls who are too young. Besides, isn't it better to be having them fantasizing about someone younger or lusting after those anime characters instead of actually acting on those fantasies?
Fantasy often does become reality, and when it does, what is "too young"? Well, the laws have definitions for this, but I don't know if I always agree with those laws. Yeah, I know, I'm working myself into some real trouble here. Just bear with me, then criticize once you see how screwed up I am.
Everyone matures at a different rate, and if a teenage girl of reasonable maturity consents to sex with an older guy, where is the harm in that? Yeah, you can argue that the older man's experience and age can be used in a subtle yet coercive fashion, keeping it from being true consent. On the other hand, a lot of girls aren't fucking stupid, either. They have sexual desires as well, but we always seem to want to ignore or flat-out stifle that and think they're always daddy's little girl. For Christ's sake, those raging hormones are what the teenage years are all about, for both boys and girls. Doesn't mean that it always leads to the best choices, but it seems like it's made out to be even worse because we're so afraid of anything sex related.
I'm not trying to advocate a free-for-all on sex with younger girls, just a more realistic and healthy approach. Furthermore, I'm certainly not trying to apologize for men who take advantage of and/or sexually abuse younger girls.
I still haven't answered the question of "how young is too young, no matter what?" I want to say that things need to be taken on a case by case basis, but I know that's not a practical way to handle things as a matter of law. Of course, when we're talking the lower ranges like 13 and under, we can draw some clearer lines. If nothing else, though, I really object to the term "statutory rape." If you forcibly have sex with someone, it's just plain rape, and you don't need the qualifier of "statutory" because it's already a heinous enough crime. Of course, there's always the question of what true consent is, and if yes really means yes. I guess I'm not really helping myself out here.
This comes back to part of the NAMBLA debate. Does fantasy incite action? Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. It's really up to the individual as to how far they take it, but I definitely don't think you should be condemned until you take it to the point of inappropriate action. It's just in many men's nature to have naughty thoughts about girls younger than them. Whatever the case, good luck putting an end to fantasy.
I'm sure there's no secret at this point that I've got a lolita complex myself, given away by my schoolgirl uniform fetish mentioned in posts past, as well as this entire fucking post. I'm not embarrassed to say that I can look at a teenage girl and say that she's hot. There are plenty (but not all) of those "youthfully portrayed" anime characters who I find, um, stimulating. That doesn't mean I'm going to do anything about any of it, though, other than keep up the fantasies. Same goes for other guys. Some guys will do something about it, and in some cases, that's not so horrid. We just automatically want to think that the guy is some dirty older pervert (which he is) and the girl is just some innocent bystander (sometimes she is, sometimes she isn't). And of course, just because a guy finds interest in younger girls doesn't mean he exclusively thinks about younger women. It's all part of the wonderful world of maleness.
Whatever the case can we at least stop being so bloody uptight about it all? The attraction between older men/younger women is just a fact of life. As always, comments are encouraged (especially from women, if there are any left after this) to tell me whether I'm onto something, or if I'm just a sick fuck who's full of shit. I suspect I may get more of the latter.
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